Make EdTech 100 with LindyHoc

Welcome to make EdTech 100.

I am LindyHoc Educator, K 12
Ed Tech Advisor, and your host.

This is a podcast where we keep it real
about what actually works in classrooms.

No hype, no overwhelm, just practical
strategies, honest stories and

tools that make a real difference
for teachers and students.

So come along with me on a
journey to make EdTech 100.

Today I have a guest on the
pod who I've known for years.

I was trying to figure out how many
years and I think at least 15 years.

Marni Bender is a fellow Montanan
and teacher at East Helena

School District in East Helena.

Montana, her current role is librarian.

She is one of those educators who goes
above and beyond for her students and

is always willing to try new things.

A great example of this is Marni
started East Helena's eSports

team and really led the charge on.

Bringing eSports to Montana as a
state as well, which I'm excited

to talk to her about today.

Honestly, I selfishly wanted to get her
on the pod because we never have time to

catch up, and I love to hear about all
the amazing things that she is doing.

So welcome Marni.

Oh, Lindy, that was so nice.

Thank you.

That was, that was the nicest intro.

I was just like, Aw,
I'm so excited to talk.

Well, you're the best is great.

So don't you think I was thinking, I
think it's been about 15 years since

we, yeah, no, so this is year 17 for me.

Like when I'm done it's 17 years
teaching, so yeah, it's been from

the beginning, which is awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've been there.

So, and just a little bit
of context . To how we met.

I at the time was working for
Southwest Montana School Services,

which is the southwest Montana
Regional Service Center as their

technology integration specialist.

And East Helena was one of our,
around like 80 schools that we

supported in southwest Montana.

So what else do listeners
need to know about you?

Oh, man, I like to fly by the
seat of my pants, kind of with

all things in life sometimes.

, I was just thinking about, , sometimes
the best ideas in teaching and

library and whatever just come up.

Just gotta do it, you know, and try it.

And I, I love to do that.

, If you want some personal things,
I am an avid outdoors person.

Oh, I love Montana.

, My kids and I recently, last year
we tried to do 50 hikes over the

summer, like 50 different hikes.

Wow.

Yeah.

And, , we had some like rules and things
in order for it to qualify as a hike.

I think we made it, if we count my son
and my husband's hunting hikes to like 42.

Wow.

Which really isn't bad.

We ended up getting impressed.

Yeah, we got a puppy this summer and she
couldn't do like all the hikes 'cause

it was too hot and she's so little.

So that, that made it a little tough.

But we're looking forward to this
summer by, . You know, developing some

new outdoors goals and hiking goals.

So that's, yeah, that's
something personal about me.

I love the Montana people, , on the
podcast are now used to listen to

me talk about Montana and my love
for the outdoors and being, yes.

Montana Mountains and on, oh my
gosh, my husband and I bought a

boat last summer, so that What kind?

It's like, it's like a
little, um, what's it called?

Good question.

A bow rider.

It about, so like motorboat type of thing?

That's like It's a boat.

Yeah, it's not a drift boat.

Okay, okay.

Is weird.

We have a drift boat.

You have a drift boat.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

And for people that aren't from
Montana, Bozeman is like the

fly fishing meck of the world.

'cause we're literally like the
three forks because three, the

Gallatin, the Jefferson, and the
Mass River all come together.

My husband and I grew up in
Eastern Montana versus You

grew up in Deer Lodge, right?

Yeah.

So Western, yeah.

Yeah.

So you're from Western, so
you grew up with rivers and

fly fishing and drift boats.

We did not.

Yeah.

And like there's no rivers and there's
hardly any water in southeast Montana.

That's dope.

Yeah, that's true.

We are one of the rare people that live in
Bozeman that don't fly fish and so, Hmm.

I know, right?

What is that?

No, I know.

And people are just like, what?

You know, I tried at one time,
I took a whole class on it.

Yeah.

It's hard.

It's really hard.

I grew up doing it, so I totally
get people who are brand new.

Um.

Yeah, I, I was catching fish by the
time I was in first grade by myself.

Wow.

So my dad's a fly fishing
and fly tying nut, so.

Okay.

It's been, it's been a long time.

And my husband's a guide,
so we definitely fish.

So you're, you're the drift boat family?

Yeah.

Yes.

We're the yeah, you're
the drift boat family.

We get, we got the, like we
do the canyon ferry, the Haer.

Yeah.

Oh, and that's so nice.

Yellow.

Yeah.

Oh, I love getting invited
by my friends who have.

The big boats we call 'em.

Yeah.

The big boats.

Ours isn't very big still, but Yeah.

But it's still so awesome.

It's big enough.

Yeah.

That, yeah.

And you can fly around.

Ha.

We, yeah, we really enjoyed Hauser
Dam, which those of you that

aren't from working right outside
of Helena, where Marney lives.

So we spent a lot of time at
Hauser and a little bit of time

at Canyon Ferry, which is just the
other side of the dam of Houser.

So, yep.

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

That's a, that's place.

Yeah.

It's kind actually, we're almost
like, our geography is almost

flipped a little bit because Yeah.

Bozeman Moore has the
rivers for the drifter.

Yes.

And Helena has the dams and
reservoirs for the motor boat.

We, we need to you locations with
our, we do just trade boats around.

Let's just train boats sometime.

Let's arrange for that.

I love it.

I love it.

So Barney, so we can get to
know you a little bit more.

Mm-hmm.

Tell us what does make
Ed Tech 100 mean to you?

How do you interpret that?

So, in my eyes, I think it means make.

Ed tech 100% your own.

Um mm-hmm.

And I know that can come off a little
selfish sounding, but I think the

world, especially with tech, there's
a lot coming at you all at once.

And I think especially as teachers,
we feel pressure to try all the

things, oh, here's the revolutionary
new thing for your kids, or

it's gonna change your teaching.

And, . Sometimes it's too much.

So I think people need to like, take the
time to think and make it work for them.

What's achievable, what's
realistic, what's gonna work best

for the students that I work with.

I don't think teachers should try
something 'cause they're pressured.

They, they should feel
comfortable and supported.

And so if I ever do a training,
um, a tech training, I just

encourage teachers to, um.

You know, take whatever we're learning
about in a way that works for them.

Even if it's a tidbit, like
let's try just something.

So, , make ed tech 100% work for you
in a way that is doable and achievable.

Makes you feel good.

You do you, that's one of my models.

Is like you do you, and when it comes to.

Using tech as a learning tool and teaching
responsible and healthy use of technology.

Mm-hmm.

I, there are a few things
that I'm a stickler about.

If people that know me and have
attended my trainings, I'm like, no.

This is a non-negotiable , like
, compliance, safety, ferpa.

Yes.

Yes.

And certain like foundational
knowledge so that we can.

A hundred percent teach them healthy use.

But when it comes to figuring out
like what tools you're going to use.

Yes.

Right?

Like yeah, you do, you, and there's
all the time it happens where I'm

like, well, this is my tool of
choice, or this is how I like to, yes.

And I share it in that way.

But then the teachers, , you all have.

Different students, different
schools, different, yes.

Different cultures.

Yes.

And you have to figure out how to take,
and that's just the great thing about

the art and the science of teaching.

Yeah.

Right.

A hundred percent.

I love the make nice, if it was
a science and it was like, yeah,

this is exactly how it goes.

But it is not at all.

Yeah.

Just, I love the, the, the
new teachers that come in.

'cause I've been around for
a while now and they're like,

oh, you could do this that way.

And it's like, oh.

Yay.

Young new teachers.

Yeah.

Teaching me all the shortcuts.

So, love it.

I love learning from other people too.

And that's, it's, it's the best.

Yeah.

That's great.

Yeah, definitely gotta keep all
those non-negotiables in mind.

I like that you mentioned
that because that's important.

I mentioned that you
started your eSports Yes.

Team.

Do you call it club?

Yeah, team.

So we're tech, we're technically a club.

, Because if.

If you're gonna be a team like a
sport, , you need to be MHSA sanctioned

and that's the Montana High School
Association, and we're not there yet.

Okay.

So we are technically a club,
but we treat it like a team.

So what's so cool about East Helena is
we were one of the first high schools

to be involved in the first Montana
High School eSports League, and it

has a really long name, , the Montana
High School Championship series.

And it's run by the University of Montana.

They are the only university
in the state with an eSports

team that, , does scholarships.

I know there are other club
teams at other universities.

I'm not sure if any of 'em have
gotten to the level that, um, is

at, . But they actually, gosh, this
is now years ago, which is crazy.

Um, they reached out probably four years
ago to, , me and there's a coach at

Sydney, , Russ, who's really awesome.

He's been doing this a
little longer than I have.

, There's just a few other schools
reached out to, Hey, let's make,

let's do this Montana thing.

Do you wanna do this Montana thing?

We're like, yeah.

'cause when we started out
seven years ago, right before

COVID, we tried to start.

I should say we started
later, 2020 technically.

, We started with national
leagues, and those are fun.

But you don't, like, you
don't see who you're playing.

There's no webcam, you know?

Oh, okay.

Um, all you can do is chat with them.

, And, and there's no real connection.

And so we did a few years of national
leagues and, and, and then it was fun,

but once there was an opportunity to
do this Montana thing where we could

like know and see the people who were
playing it, you know, against it was

just like, yes, we have to do this.

Um, and what's so funny, this is random.

When we were playing in our
national league, we actually,

, we, , played Sydney once.

In our national league,
which is so bizarre.

Sydney, Montana for Okay.

Yeah.

People who are curious.

And so that was like, whoa.

There's other Montana teams.

So, , yeah, we have this Montana
League and this is the fourth year and

there's probably around 20 schools.

Okay.

And there's four different games.

, Super Smash Brothers, rocket
League, Overwatch, and Valant.

. What's really awesome about
East Telling is every year we've

had 20 to 30 kids participate.

, We have varsity teams and JV
teams, if there's enough kids,

and even like a practice team.

Oh, wow.

, Some of them are so popular.

Yeah.

And what's so cool, I gotta brag on
'em because these kids are so amazing,

is that, , in each of the four years
that this league has been active, we've

won a state title in one of the games.

That every year.

That really, which is amazing.

Yeah.

And , last year we placed, , in
every single game, first, second,

or third, like we placed in every
single one, which was amazing.

, So I gotta brag on those
kids 'cause they're amazing.

, Yeah.

It's something I never saw myself
doing, which is kind of funny.

Like, I'm not a gamer.

A lot of people are like, oh, you
have to be a gamer to do this.

And I'm like, no, no.

But . I have my brother
who really inspired me.

He grew up kind of being the gamer
and he actually currently works, , as

a creative director for 2K games.

So like NBA 2K.

, Gosh, I think one of his
newest games was Civilization.

Oh, if I got that wrong, I'm gonna be mad.

Oh.

Anyway, but he's actually creating.

He is, so he's, he does a little bit
more of the media surrounding it.

Okay.

And helps create and direct the
trailers when they introduce new games.

, So he's, wow.

It's like a dream job of, so
like every guy I went to high

school with, that's like the job.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

What's funny is he started out as an
English teacher for a year or two.

Oh.

And he started a gaming discussion group.

And when I was teaching middle school
library, I was like, I wanna do that.

Uh, not being a gamer, but I was like,
I, I'm all about finding the things

for the kids who don't have a thing.

If that makes sense.

Like I tried to do athletics in high
school, but I was not the greatest.

I was a theater kid.

That's where I, you know,
where I was able to shine.

And so I wanna find things for
kids who don't have a thing.

So I started a gaming discussion
group and it eventually turned

into intramural eSports, which
eventually turned into playing

against other teams and other schools.

Um, so that's how I kind of got into it.

I didn't know much about it.

, I kind of just jumped on it.

It was kind of an evolution, you know?

, If, if we could find a way for kids
to shine and, , honestly work on

really amazing skills that will help
them as humans and in the workforce.

You know, communication,
collaboration, perseverance.

, There's, , some strata heavy
strategizing with eSports.

Oh, much strategizing.

Yeah.

And, and the thing about eSports thinking.

Yes.

Is the strategy.

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

Yes.

And what's, what's so great
is, , when our kids play, , they

are together in the same room.

And a lot of gamers when they
play casually from home, you

know, they're on headphones and
microphones and you can't see anyone.

And that's where a lot of the
toxic stuff happens, , and where

gaming can get kind of the bad rap.

And so with eSports, we treat it.

Like this is a sport and we are
going to, , maintain a positive, you

know, code of conduct, a positive
environment, and, , playing in person.

A lot of those kids, oh
man, they learn some skills.

I have, I've had kids go from like
throwing the remote tantrums, the

controller, not remote, . , To being able
to shake hands with someone at the end.

Wow.

And like find a calming strategy.

'cause like.

Those are people skills.

Those are life skills, you know?

And so that's, that's the magic of
eSports, I think about those kids and

just how far they've come as people.

But even as gamers too, it's just like.

Aw.

I love it.

I love that you said find
a place for the kids.

Yes.

That don't have another place that
is important anywhere, but it's extra

important in smaller Montana schools,
which each East Helena, and just so you

guys know, so Helena's the capital of
Montana, but how, how big is Helena?

I don't even, I shoulda looked.

Oh gosh.

If you count the valley, uh,
I wanna say like 50, 60,000.

Like if that's what I was, if you got the
whole valley, not city limits, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I would, okay.

So yeah, so Wikipedia says 2020
census 32,000 was Helena's.

Helena proper.

Yeah.

And then East Helena is
like just outside of Helena.

So like, how many kids do you have?

12. Yeah.

Our population's so weird.

Like east town as a town is not very
much, but like we have all the surrounding

stuff, you know, which is crazy.

, We're a class A school.

What's crazy is, , okay.

You're bigger than I thought you were.

I would say class.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're the second biggest
class, A high school.

Okay.

Um, so we have around, and for
those of you that aren't from

Montana, that's how you classify the
size for Montana School is their,

their MHSA de designation mm-hmm.

Of whether they're a double A,
an A, a B, or a C. Double A are

the largest schools and we only,
there's only like six or seven.

AA school.

Yeah.

Might, might even be 10
because Poman and Kapo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But maybe 10, maybe 10 AA schools
in the whole state of Montana.

Remember we only a million people, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and then class A and then class
B, and then class C. That's what

I grew, grew up in is teeny little
and there's a pile of class C tons.

So whenever you're discussing
with someone like what is the

size of a school in Montana, it's
designated by their, their sports.

Yes.

Designation.

So Class A is big for Montana.

It's big for Montana.

It's big for Montana.

Yeah.

We have 600 ish kids.

Okay.

I would say that's which I know people
that are from like Texas or California

and a lot of other East coast, anywhere
from the East coast are like six.

That's big.

That's tiny because that,
that's corner of a class, right.

States.

But that, that's pretty
big for Montana size.

But I say that it's to explain that,
, you know, you grew up in Deer Lodge.

Deer is Deer Lodge a class.

B, class B. So it was smaller.

A little smaller, yep.

But a little bigger
than what I grew up in.

Eagle was Class C. Very tiny.

Tiny, tiny, tiny.

And . All that I had for options
growing up were for sports.

You had volleyball,
basketball, track, that was it.

We had a speech team.

Yep.

And we had two CTSOs.

So F, C, C, LA and F. F. A. Yep.

Um, band in choir and.

Fun fact.

Yeah.

The only way that you could graduate
high school at Carter County High

School in AKA Montana was to take
band or choir because it was our

only fine arts credit that we had.

So everybody all had to either be in band
for two years or choir for two years,

or do band and choir for one year in
order to get their fine arts credit's.

'cause we had no art.

We had no foreign language, no
art, world language, no art, no.

So I explain this to say.

That it can be really, really hard
for kids in these smaller schools Yes.

And smaller towns.

Yes.

To find their place.

So the fact that in a school size of
only 600, you're able to offer that.

And granted they have, yeah.

They have a few more options than I
did in cca. And you did theological.

Yeah.

Oh, definitely.

You talked about being a theater kid.

Yeah.

You didn't have theater choir.

The choir, we would sometimes do
like a musical as part of choir.

Yeah, yeah, sometimes, but like, it
was like once a year you, we might,

you know, like that wasn't an option.

You weren't a theater kid and from
Montana, like, yeah, that's it.

So, so point being the fact
that you're kind of have this

little niche of e-sports.

Yep.

Kids to find is, is so huge.

And that's what I hear.

Yeah.

From so many people and
educators, parents that have

kids that are involved in sports.

Yes, exactly what you said, that
there's a lot of misconceptions

around so many eSports.

So my gosh, mentioned a few of them.

Yeah.

That tend to push people away and
they don't like that, you know, video

games are, are killing our brain
cells and no, we can't purposely

allow them to play video games.

How would we do that?

But yes, no, the downsides are
so small compared to all of.

The upsides.

Yep.

And I always encourage my kids
like, yeah, you could sit play games

constantly and get better and grind.

You know, they say, , but I tell
them, you have to have balance.

You have to go touch grass sometimes
you have to move your body, , because

that's how you're gonna keep your
brain the sharpest, you know, you

have to do some different things.

So we do encourage.

Being balanced and doing different
things and not just sitting there

playing the game all the time.

That is a definite misconception for sure.

Yep.

And it's so much more.

When you mentioned your brother, he
actually has, I love that connection

that he has a real world career.

Yeah, the gaming, but people don't realize
about eSports is it connects and all the

skills you need to create an eSports team
and compete or even it's crazy practice.

There are so many skills and so many
careers that are connected to eSports,

to the point that I don't think Montana
is here yet, but like California for

example, a lot of the larger, I would
say probably most of the state at

this point are actually starting to
integrate eSports into their curriculum.

I've seen that, yeah.

Yeah.

Particularly like career and tech
ed curriculum as a way, so cool.

So like for example, if you've
never watched an eSports

tournament or game Yeah.

Competition of any kind.

They have what are called shout casters.

Yes, yes.

We've had those.

Yep.

You have shout.

Okay, so the shout casters
are kind of like, what?

Like I just watched the
Super Bowl last weekend.

I play by play, right?

Commentators?

Yeah, they're commentators, but
they're called Shout casters in East.

Yes, I love them.

That is a, think about all the
skills and all the careers that are

attached to being a shout pastor.

And then there's the whole
technical media side of streaming.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

And connecting to that, it's crazy.

So, um, actually, I should
get her on the podcast.

I, you probably don't.

Do you know Julie?

Er George, you might not know her.

She's based outta California.

She worked for Fresno Public Schools
and she's like the eSports person.

She's Oh, cool.

She, my eSports guru expert, I should get
her on because that's literally what she

did at Fresno Unified Schools is cool.

She incorporated.

eSports into their career in tech
ed programs, so That's so cool.

It wasn't, they, they were still doing
competitive, like the kids wanted to

be part of the competitive part of it.

Yeah, but they were
actually the media class.

Oh, I'd love to prepare for that.

All the streaming video for the
eSports team and then the Yes.

The, um, the broadcasting class was
doing the shout casting and anyway,

it's so cool, so cool and so endless.

And that's what people that have
this mindset of like, oh, why would

you have them play video games?

You're missing out.

Yes.

On, yes, a hundred percent.

And like I said, I'm not a
gamer and I just see the magic.

I, I see it.

It's just so amazing and I've
learned so much about games too.

, But man, these kids, these kids are
incredible and just the way they've grown.

And, , another random career path I
saw, , which I thought was so interesting

was, , oh my goodness, for kids to
be like drone pilots because their

reaction time and hand coordination.

Like hand eye coordination is so strong
that they're really good at that stuff.

And I was like, oh, wow.

Well, guess what?

Guess what's going on right now?

The Winter Olympics as we see.

Yes.

And I've been seeing the drones.

I just saw a TikTok video this morning.

Yeah.

About the drone operators.

Yeah.

At the Olympics.

Yeah.

And it's a legit skill because they think
about the, it was the drone operators

that are following the skiers and the
See, that's terrifying to me because

that are going like 90 miles an hour.

Yeah, yeah.

And this guy was talking about
all the skills he has to have, and

there's also a safety aspect there.

There's also an aspect of making sure that
the drones don't get in the way of the

competitors and the competition and, yeah.

Yeah.

That's.

Right there.

That one I thought was like really cool.

I was like, oh man.

I have kids who I think would be so
good at that, actually, you know, just.

Yeah.

We've known each other 15 years
since the, be kind of the beginnings

of my career where I really niched
down into ed tech in particular.

Yeah.

And we've been, I've been saying this for
15 years, people have been saying this

for 15 years, and every year it becomes
more and more true that we're preparing

kids for drops that don't exist yet.

Right?

Yes.

That's a perfect example.

15 years ago, would you and I have
talked about eSports or drone operating?

No.

Or

no?

Drones 15 years ago, drones
were like some far off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like That's so funny to
think about 15 years ago.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, but that,
that's a perfect example.

And an example of how, like the
skills that you build in eSports

lead to all, well, it's the same
with regular sports, physical sports,

all the skills that are involved.

You learn teamwork, you learn classes.

Yes, yes, yes.

So it's no different for
eSports, it's just less physical.

And there's a lot of, that's what
I tell people, people in the world

that need less physical opportunities
to learn those skills and still

be in a competitive environment.

Yep.

Yep.

Totally different type of physical output.

I tell people, 'cause some of the,
like I said, the hand-eye coordination

reaction time thing that some like
things that some of these kids can do.

It's just like.

Whoa.

Like it's, it's a physical skill.

You might not think of it that way.

It a hundred percent is, it's crazy.

Yeah.

We have some really talented kids.

It's fun to watch.

I love that.

And I love that you, you
know, you're not a gamer.

You just jumped in and just,
'cause that's another misconception

that in order to start eSports
at your school or be in eSport.

Coach or whatever, like you have
to be a hardcore gamer yourself.

And that's not the case at all.

No, not at all.

And I've been so fortunate that we
have three assistant coaches now that

are the more, the gamers and they
specialize in a lot of the games.

So I consider myself like the
HR manager a little bit Okay.

With the feelings.

And if there's a conflict or let's
figure this out, , , I do help with

one of the games a little more.

Regularly, but now that I
have all these amazing people.

, On our team, they, they're really
able to kind of fine tune some of

the actual gaming skills, I guess.

So yeah, we're really,
really fortunate here.

So, switching gears a bit.

Yes.

I want to hear about your work in the
library at East Helena or just in general.

What are you guys, what are
you doing in East Helena now?

Oh, man.

Oh, the library world is so fun.

Like, it's very much the mini hats.

Job.

, And my position is so unique because
I am halftime at the high school.

So I'm at the high school in the morning
and then in the afternoon I go to

our pre-K and kindergarten building.

That's how that worked.

You said you a pre-K, kindergarten and
high school and I was like high school.

I'm like that, so, okay, so
you do like half it each?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's, it's the best thing ever.

At the high school, I'll just focus
on what we've been doing recently.

, The high school, there's been a lot
of like research skills, \, citations

work and some presentation skills.

We're also really pushing and helping
develop the love of reading, which I think

is making a little bit of a comeback.

I know kids have kind of been like,
Ugh, but now it's like starting

to get a little cool again.

Yes.

, And it's amazing.

, Gosh, ed tech is like in all of that too.

, We've been talking a lot with the
research, kind of the AI stuff

that pops up and how AI can be a
part of it, but I still have them,

produce, you know, work that's
their own and is meaningful.

, With books, I just, I just love all
the options that are available now.

Like you just, audiobook, ebook,
bam, like 15 years ago it was

like, here's my cd, here's my.

Here's my book.

I'm listening to it, you know,
if I wanted an audiobook.

That's been a lot of the high
school, , the, the kindergarten.

We're just having a blast right now.

Oh my gosh.

, Obviously we're reading a lot of books,
but I have about halfway through the

year start doing makerspace days.

And , right now we're working with
the Sphero Indies and doing the little

coding robots and oh my gosh, I just had
a class do it for the first time today

and it's just the best is so magical.

'cause they're, they're playing
but they don't realize like

the high level thinking.

They're doing with these
little coding robots.

I love indies.

I love Sphero.

Um, yeah, so we're starting
some makerspace units, which

I was determined to figure out
how to get into kindergarten.

Um.

Because I had done so much of it in
middle school and I just loved 3D printers

doing all the really cool projects.

And so we're dipping our toes
into it with some, some robots and

3D pens, some different things.

Um, so yeah, we're, we're busy in
the library in east El schools, but

we're, we're having so much fun.

You just gotta have fun.

So would you consider your
library to also be a makerspace?

Like do you have a
makerspace in your library?

Do you have two libraries?

Yeah, so I don't have like a set
space, and I would say for the

kindergarten it starts pretty guided.

It wouldn't be that true
makerspace, you know, um, to start.

But once we learn about the tool,
get some kind of basic skills to go

with the tool, um, then they get some
challenges and kind of get to go for it.

But my makerspace is in bins.

Yeah.

There's not a designated space.

I got bins.

Lots of bins.

But you do a lot of maker learning in.

Yes, and I love that stuff.

Oh, 'cause like.

Once again, so many
skills that go with that.

Not just, the creativity stuff, obviously.

, But the, the communication, the
collaboration and like kindergartners,

they're just learning that.

So it's really good to get them, I
think, as much of that as they can,

, to just really build that stuff up.

Plus, it's so fun having fun, I think a
misconception of people that aren't in.

More modern.

Modern, I call it modern K 12 education.

Yeah.

Don't think people realize how
much libraries have evolved.

Oh man.

From I, even the library though,
I don't even know if you could

call it a library in Yeah.

Lack of, sorry if anybody that
were, my teachers are listening

to this, but man, was it sad?

I think we had half of, yeah, we didn't
even have like a designated space.

I think there was like half a room.

That had some bookshelves
and that was the library.

No, that is case like teacher librarians.

I always tease, but it's true.

You guys are my best friends as a
tech integrator, you're my, that's

probably how that we started meshing
together, like I don't think, yes.

You weren't in the library at that point?

No, I was in fourth grade.

Yeah.

I switched to library.

Quite a few, um, but still like,
you guys are my best friends

because you are the glue that when
done right makes everything work.

Like you're saying you're working
with the high schoolers on research

and talking about now how the AI
impact, I just did a session on

this at TCA conference last week.

Yes.

The AI impact of research and doing
the maker learning stuff that you don't

always have the time or the content area.

Teachers, you know, don't always have.

The time space, you know,
whatever skills mm-hmm.

To be able to do that.

You, you guys just bring all of that
digital literacy, digital citizenship

aspect together and the library is so
much more than the quiet space that you

go to check out a book or like read.

Yes.

Now it's changed.

It's changed a lot.

It's awesome.

It's changed and it's awesome.

Like I love the library.

. , I'm secretly jealous.

Like I, I secretly wanna be a teacher.

Seriously, like a teacher librarian or
like larger districts will have a, yeah.

They'll call themselves
like media specialists now.

Oh yes.

Like sometimes that would be, it's
a teacher library and sometimes

it's more of a media specialist.

Sometimes the two are like
super, super mixed together.

But, , yeah, I've seen, I've been in
so many schools where the maker space

for the school is in the library.

Yes.

I went in one school in um, oh gosh.

Trying to remember.

I think it was in like
Vancouver, Washington area.

Yeah.

I got to go and they got
this grant and they got a 3D

printer and a bunch of stuff.

So I got to go share it all with them and
it was the librarian that led it and the

equipment was gonna be in the library.

And I had some students in the training
as well learning how to use it.

And they were teasing but not
teasing that they called it the loud.

That was the name.

Oh.

'cause it's not, it's, it's not just
like, you know, you and you even see

like the stereotypes in the media
of like, yes, we're in the library.

Be quiet.

Right.

Yeah.

That's not, yeah.

Like modern school libraries
and honestly even public

libraries are now maker spaces.

Yes.

And I saw one the other day, somebody
was telling me that there is a, yeah.

Podcasts, they can rent a podcast
studio from their public library.

That's so cool.

Oh my gosh.

I know Missoula has a big designated one.

Really?

That's when they, they redid their
library a few years ago and they, I got

to, , kind of go through it, but they
have an actual room and there's printers

and just Oh, there's all sorts of things.

Yeah.

And it's just so cool.

So cool.

Makerspace e. Yes.

On that note of Makerspace, you
mentioned that you're starting

some 3D printing classes.

Yes.

Tell me more about that.

Yes, so I've been doing some
after school classes 'cause.

I, I miss it.

Yeah, I, I had the budget to buy one.

, So I have one in the library, in the
little pre-K kindergarten library.

, I have a 3D printer here, and
I've just been itching to teach

it again, teach, you know, the
3D design, how the printers work,

, how, , they can help solve problems.

And so I have a couple sessions.

I have first, second, and third
graders in a group, and then

fourth, fifth, and sixth graders.

And, . This is where I could
talk about a major teaching

fail because I still have them.

Yay.

, Man, first grader, if you, if
you don't have teaching fails,

are you for really, I, I don't.

Right.

Really Not a teacher.

Gosh.

My first, second, and third grade group,
, we use Tinker Cat, that online platform

for 3D Design, and it's, it's so slick.

It's so great.

, I didn't realize my first graders
have never used a Chromebook.

Oh, so they had to learn how
to use the Chrome, learn how to

use a Chromebook and a mouse.

Yeah.

, We started with the touch pads
and I quickly got some mice,

like some external masks.

I was like, oh, it's hard to
do Tinker Pad on a track pad.

It's, and I've done it on
an app, like the app before.

I don't like it as much on the app.

, 'Cause the kids are
familiar with their iPads.

There's some school iPads they can use.

, But yeah, so I had to.

Teach Chromebook and then teach Tinkercad,
and it's like sometimes they get a

little cocky, like, oh, I've got this.

And it's like, wait.

I don't.

Nope, that's way up.

Scaffolding.

We're gonna figure it out, but, oh man.

Yeah.

I love that story though.

That is such a perfect story of what I
share when I'm working with educators

about technology is yes, sometimes there
are skills that you need to back up and

scaffold and teach before you can even
get to it, but it's honestly no different

than if you're using manipulative block.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Oh yeah.

Like same thing.

You still gotta teach,
like how do we handle them?

How do we put them away?

You know, we do this, we do this.

It's the same thing.

It's just with technology versus
something physical like Yeah.

Blocks.

And I've, I've learned so much in
kindergarten too, on the things

that I need to teach in order
for the skill building to happen.

, 'Cause this is only my third year
and I swear I'm learning new things.

Every single day still.

I love that you're, you're
sharing the things like you're

doing Tinkercad design with Yes.

Iker first graders.

You're doing 3D printing with
kindergarten and first graders.

Yes.

One of the things I hear all
the time, and I'm like, no.

Yeah.

Is, oh, well I'm, I'm a primary teacher.

That doesn't apply for me.

Or I could never do
that with kindergarten.

No.

Oh, you can.

And it's so fun.

You gave, gave the perfect example
of how you might have to back up.

Yep.

And you might have to scaffold Yep.

And teach some, you know, basic skills.

Yeah.

This is how we use a mouse
or a track pad or, yes.

Something like that.

You, you sometimes have to take
it a lot slower than you would

with older kids, but you can.

And they can and they want to.

They do.

You know, that's the fun part.

They're like, when they do their first
print, our first print is a really

simple key chain with their name on it.

I know it.

Eric, with their name.

Yep.

I used to Do you know the Okay.

Yeah.

Put the name.

Yeah.

Yep, yep.

And uh, when they get that
printed and this, their eyes like.

Oh, I made this.

Like what , is, is so cool.

To see it come to life.

'cause you can, you know, make things on a
computer and that's fun and that's great.

But to have the thing in your hand
that you made on the computer, like.

That's sweet.

You know, that's real life.

Yeah.

It's just magic.

They get to take it home and
they're so excited and Yeah.

Oh gosh.

Yeah.

It makes it all worth it too.

I'll tell you, my teacher fail
when it comes to 3D Printing.

Yes.

With the younger kids.

Um, this was like K five elementary.

Mm-hmm.

So I, same, same idea.

I was like, oh, let's put
their initials on a monogram.

Make like a monogram ring.

So they can actually wear the ring.

Yes.

It was a brilliant idea.

It was not a brilliant idea
for the first Tinker cad.

I can see that.

Yes.

Now looking back, I'm like, duh, Lindy.

But this was when I was
newer to 3D printing too.

I was newer to Tinker cad.

Be, so I ended up backing up
and exactly what you said.

We ended up moving to their name.

We did some different things like
key chain and name plates and that

kind of thing because, and if you're
not familiar with like Tinkercad

and 3D modeling and 3D printing.

Yeah.

The reason the ring was a
terrible idea for a first project.

It needed to be like a fifth
project, not a first project.

Yeah, that's a, a tough one.

For one, like to put
the letters on the ring.

You have to learn how to
wrap the letters, right?

Yes.

Because it's not circular.

It's not flat.

Yes.

So that's the whole thing.

Then I thought it was all great, like,
oh, they'll be able to wear a ring.

Well, they all have a different ring size.

Ring size, yeah.

So then we had to, we had to like
figure out their ring size and then

translate that into millimeters.

Yes.

And teachers had to figure out the sizes.

And that's painful.

Oof.

Painful.

Very huge fail.

Oh, I've been there, man.

I've been there.

But hey, guess what?

I did that I learned
That was way too complex.

Oh my gosh.

For an intro 3D printing project for
honestly, anybody even, that would've

been, I think, well, that's hard.

High schoolers would've,
there would've been the ones

that would've figured it out.

Yep, yep.

But it's still the younger kids.

No younger kids.

No, it was way too hard.

Silly.

But, but what I, but I learned
from that and I backed up.

You're ambitious.

That's great.

I've tried and I moved to flat, like
we don't do anything circular to start.

We do flat.

Yeah.

No curve surface.

No curve surface.

Yeah.

Do flat stuff.

And that's, that's a great
way to, to get that intro and.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Oh, that's amazing.

Love it.

Okay, well, Marni, I can't believe it.

We're already bumping up on time.

I could talk to you for hours more.

I know about Montana and I can't
wait to see you, your and, yes.

Yes.

So guess what?

I'm so excited.

We are.

So last year I ran into Marni.

Yes.

At NCCE conference, which those of you
that aren't familiar it, I think it stands

for the Northwest Council for Computers
and Education Computer Education.

Yep, yep, yep.

And the, it used to rotate
between Portland and Seattle.

Now they've kind of moved it to Seattle.

So it's every February and Seattle and.

It tease, but it's true that it's my
local conference, quote unquote, because

I do so many different conferences.

It's the most local one that I go to.

Although I'm going crazy, I'm doing
U set this year, which in Salt Lake

City, so that technically is closer.

I can drive there regional.

Yeah.

Versus, yeah.

Yeah.

So, but up until this year of going
to Uep for the first time, NCCE has

always been my local conference.

Even though Seattle, I love it.

I love NCCA very long way away, but
welcome to the mountain West where

everything spread out and there's not
very many of us, and we just don't

have, and Montana, we used to have
several ed tech events, and they've all.

Fizzled died.

Yeah.

That's a bummer.

I know.

It's a huge bummer.

Yeah, so literally like NCCE is our like
local conference and I ran into Marni

at NCCE last year and I was like, we
need to share the awesome things that

Montana's doing that you are doing.

I wanna share, especially like what
you're doing with eSports and how you're

making eSports work in a rural area.

Yes.

So I'm so proud of us.

We put it together and we
submitted and we have a panel.

Yay.

Friday morning of the conference, and
we're gonna be talking all things eSports,

, specifically rural eSports, and Yes.

How, how do you make it work when
you have, you know, a small school?

600? Yes.

Sydney Sydney's about the same.

Yeah.

So Sydney is class A. , Yeah, they're
our biggest, our biggest school's in

Missoula, Missoula Sentinel, and our
smallest school just joined this year.

It's the leader.

Which is Oh, the, the, there's tiny.

Yeah.

So we do have, yeah, we have mostly
A and BI believe A and B. Okay.

Schools, but still.

So even the small little in Montana Yeah.

Class C schools.

Yes.

You can do it.

You can make eSports work.

Yep.

, So if we're gonna talk about,
so we've got Marni on the panel.

Yes.

I'm gonna be leading.

We've got a couple other
awesome eSports people there.

Just Yes.

And yes.

I'm so excited.

It'll be great.

Yeah.

And we'll get to see each other as well.

I know.

I'm so excited.

We gotta go out to eat or something.

We gotta do something, right?

Yeah.

I know you're gonna be busy though.

I know you're busy 'cause you're doing
all the presentations, all the things, all

the things, all the time, all the things.

Yes, yes, yes.

So tell us last two questions for you.

Yes.

How can listeners connect with you?

Oh man.

Okay, well I'm not cool and
I don't have my own website.

Should I do that?

Like start my own website?

I mean, I think you should have
a website for all the cool things

you're doing in the library.

Maybe.

Maybe I should, or blog.

Just blog.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, email's probably best.

I can send you my email to maybe.

Put in the description or whatever you do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll put it in the show notes and, and
my school email's on our East Schools

website, that's EHPs mt do gov. Ooh.

Um, and I have a LinkedIn, but
I like look at it once a month.

Should I like, get into that?

Overwhelmed by all the things.

So all the things.

LinkedIn is very important.

I should do a podcast
episode just on the end.

Really?

Okay.

I'll, I'll maybe prioritize it.

Did teen high school
kids how to use LinkedIn.

Oh, that's a, that's a good point.

The job, sorry, I'm
getting on a tangent here.

No, this is what I do.

Do it, but it's important.

It the job market.

Yeah.

Of today that our kids
will be participating in is

LinkedIn, so they need them.

I I gotta just do it.

Yep.

And yeah.

Anyway, I I, I could really go off
on a tangent, but it's important.

So of all social media, I tell
people, I'm like, if you don't

wanna touch another social media,
I wanna hundred percent get it.

Yeah.

You don't have to do Facebook.

Yeah.

You don't have to do Instagram.

You don't have to do
TikTok, but do LinkedIn.

You're a professional.

Yeah.

To be doing LinkedIn and
you need to be sharing.

Yeah, on LinkedIn.

Wow.

I gotta, I gotta do it
then I gotta commit.

Alright.

Um, we'll put that in the show notes.

And then final question, most important
question, we end every episode

with a make ed tech 100 moment.

Yes.

What would be your make ed tech
100 moment to be listeners with?

Oh man.

I think I would tell people, you know,
don't be afraid to take a breath.

Try something new and just
have fun, like darn it.

Right.

Even if it fails, like we
talked about the fails.

Oh my gosh.

Like this failure is what you learn
from and , first attempt in learning.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think kids are getting
better at kind of learning that and

seeing that, but we can't forget.

To like continue modeling that, that is
so important and to try things, , that

it's, the world is kind of stressful.

There's a lot of outside things that
like our body isn't designed to handle.

So take a breath, try something
new, take a break when you need

it, and gosh, just have fun.

Yeah, just have fun.

I have so much fun when I teach.

That's just, I love that.

That's the thing.

Just have so much fun.

Yeah.

That's great.

Love that message to leave listeners with.

Well, thank you, Marnie.

Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Yeah.

And I'll, I'm gonna see you soon.

I know, like less than two weeks.

Yeah.

I'm so excited.

I can't wait.

All right.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Lindy.

Thanks for joining Make EdTech 100.

I know educator time is valuable and I'm
honored you choose to spend yours with me.

For more EdTech strategies you can use
tomorrow and ways to bring me to your

school or event, head to LindyHoc.com.

If this episode resonated, hit subscribe
so you don't miss the next one.

I'm LindyHoc.

Go forth and make EdTech 100.